Iglesia Ni Cristo vs. Casa De Oro Baptist Church debate

A debate between the Iglesia Ni Cristo (represented by Bro. Rommel San Pedro) and Casa De Oro Baptist Church (represented by Dr. Ron Barnes) was held at Lincoln High School Auditorium in San Diego, California on Nov. 14, 2015. The topic is about the deity of Christ.

Another victory for the TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST!

Glory be to God!

1st Proposition

 

2nd Proposition

SDA vs. INC debate 2015

SAGOT SA MGA ARGUMENTO NG MGA SABADISTA SA KANILANG PAGKATALO SA DEBATENG GINANAP SA BANSUD, MINDORO ORIENTAL AT SA IPINALABAS NA VIDEO NA DIUMANO’Y “FINAL RESULT” NG DEBATE

Sa unang tindigan pa lang ay nakita na ng mga dumalo kung aling Iglesia ang tunay na may dala ng katotohanan o Salita ng Diyos. Ang representative ng INC na si Kapatid na RAMIL PARBA ay ginamit ang Biblia sa pagpapatunay na ang IGLESIA NI CRISTO (INC) ang ililigtas ni Cristo sa araw ng Paghuhukom. Sa panig naman ni Ginoong JAIME FAJARITO ng Seventh-Day Adventist Church (SDA), ang kapansin-pansin ay ang hindi niya pagbuklat ng Biblia sa kaniyang pagsasalita kundi ginamit ang kaniyang sariling opinion upang pabulaanan ang mga katotohanang inilantad ni Kapatid na Ramil Parba.

PAGKATAPOS ng pagtalakay ng unang paksa ay lumapit sa grupo ng IGLESIA NI CRISTO ang Honorable Mayor ng Bansud na si Mr. RONALDO MORADA. Hinihiling niya na palitan ang mga nagde-debate dahil ang analysis niya sa unang tindigan ay “TALONG-TALO” ang mga Sabadista at “NO MATCH” ang kanilang tagapagsalita na si G. Fajarito. Sinabi namin sa kanila na kausapin nila si G. Fajarito kung papayag siya na palitan na siya dahil hindi na niya kaya na tumayo sa panig ng Sabadista. 

Kailan kaya lalaban ng debate si Eliseo Soriano sa Iglesia ni Cristo?

Higit kumulang 10 taon na ang nakakaraan ng unang magkahamunan sa debate ang Iglesia ni Cristo at ang Members Church of God International ni Mr. Soriano. Hanggang ngayon, hindi pa rin matuloy tuloy dahil takot ang puno ng MCGI na humarap sa mga ministro ng Iglesia kaya ang ginawa ni Soriano noong 2005 ay hamunin ang tagapamahalang pangkalahatan namin na hindi naman tungkulin ang pakikipagdebate.

Sa pagkakaalam ko, bilin ni Soriano na hanggat nabubuhay siya ay siya lamang ang haharap sa debate bilang respresentative ng MCGI. Ayaw niya ipagkatiwala sa mga ministro niya, baka kasi sumablay. Ngunit sa panig naman ng INC, kung usaping debate lang din naman, merong mga OFFICIAL DEBATERS kami, hindi porke ministro eh pwedeng makipagdebate, kailangan pa ng pahintulot sa pamamahala. Hindi sakop ng tungkulin ng tagapamahalang pangkalahatan ang pakikipagdebate tulad sa ibang malalaking relihiyon. Ang "representative" mapa kung sino man, ANG KAKATAWAN para sa relihiyon na kinaaniban niya, hindi na kailangan pa na yun mismong LIDER ng relihiyon ang makikipagdebate. Mga walang alam sa debate lamang ang makakaisip non.

Walang problema samin ang makaharap si Mr. Eli Soriano sa debate, napakatagal ng panahon, ilang beses di sinipot ng mga ministro ng MCGI ang mga agreement kaya di natutuloy. Ilang beses na rin hinamon ng ilang ministro ng INC ang mga taga MCGI ngunit tikom ang bibig, ayaw makipagdebate. Kaya pag nagkakahamunan, ang alam lang nilang sabihin ay "ILABAS SI MANALO", yan ang dialogue ng mga duwag. Imaginin nyo nalang, sa lahat ng relihiyon na dinedebate ni Soriano, INC lang ang hinamon niya ng "PUNO SA PUNO", duwag nga kasi, ayaw humarap sa mga official debaters :)

Kaya ang tanong namin sa mga taga-MCGI, KELAN HAHARAP SA DEBATE SI SORIANO AT HANGGANG KELAN SIYA MAGTATAGO SA IBANG BANSA???

Laos na ang dialogue na MAY BANTA SA BUHAY, bakit wala ka bang Diyos, ganun ka ka-duwag mamatay. Kung pinagbabantaan ng INC ang buhay niya, matagal na dapat siyang wala sa mundong ito, dahil gano man siya kalayo pwedeng pwede naman siyang ipahanap ng INC saka gawin ang ibinibintang samin. Pero hanggang ngayon kita nyo naman, BUHAY NA BUHAY SIYA. Nagtatago sila sa style na may "nagbabanta sa buhay" ang korni.

INC vs. RCC Cebu debate

 
The debate was held last July 11 at Cebu Coliseum. INC's representative were ministers Bro. Jose Ventilation and Bro. Ramil Parba while the CFD have Mr. Ramon Gitamondoc and Mr. Alvin Gitamondoc.

(Mr. Ramon Gitamondoc is the current CFD National Spiritual Director. If you remember Mr. Alvin Gitamondoc, brother Ramon, is what they call the RDM general who had a rift with the National adviser of CFD, the priest named Mr. Abe Arganiosa)

The topics were “Resolved tha Apostle Peter was chosen by Christ as the Visible Head of the Church founded by Christ” and “Resolved that Brother Felix Y Manalo is the Messenger of God in these Last Days."


to be continued...

Iglesia ni Cristo and MCGI debate

The debate was held on Nov. 7, 2004 at Rizal Park, Davao City.

Who won? You decide!^^

CFD Mr. Talibong, totoong nandaya sa debate!

Eto po ang parte ng video galing na mismo sa mga katoliko, kung saan nandaya ng lantaran ang CFD at tanggap na tanggap naman ito ni Mr. talibong. Ang nakakatawa lang eh pinagtatanggol pa ng mga katoliko, CFD, at pari nila na hindi daw siya nandaya, meron daw talagang ganoong version sa bibliya na nakalagay sa Mat. 16:18 eh "One holy Catholic apostolic roman church". Magkaparehas lang daw talaga sila na "Confraternity bible" pero magkaiba daw ang version.


Totoo ba ito? O isa na naman nilang kasinungalingan?


Tinalakay na ito sa "Ang tamang daan" ngunit sabi nila eh EDITED DAW YUNG VIDEO AT BIAS, eto po:

Kung kaya kinuha ko ang parte ng video kung saan naganap ang pandaraya ni Mr. Talibong galing na mismo sa kanilang mga katoliko, nilagyan ko ng "annotations" nilagyan ko ng opinyon ko tungkol sa nangyari, at hindi ko ito INEDIT, baka sabihin na naman nila eh INEDIT KO YUNG VIDEO, AYSUS.

Dun sa video sa itaas, pwede nyong simulan sa 6:10.

Alam ng buong mundo, na walang NI ISANG BIBLIYA na ang nakalagay sa Mat. 16:18 eh "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church", bakit? Kasi nga:

“In 1870, at the Vatican Council, the name ‘Roman Catholic Church’ was proposed, but it was rejected. The bishops assembled unanimously decided upon this official name: ‘The Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church’” Discourses on the Apsotle’s Creed, Rev. Clement Crock, p. 191

Nung 1870 lang naman kasi naimbento ang opisyal na pangalan ng Catholic Church, eh paano masusulat yun eh nung dati pa naisulat at naipublished ang bibliya? Wala ring MATINO at SERYOSONG biblical scholar sa buong mundo na sasang ayon sa kanila na totoong may nakasulat na One Holy etc. sa bibliya lalo na sa Mat. 16:18 dahil ang binabanggit lamang doon eh "I will build my CHURCH..."

Ang pandarayang ito ay naganap sa isang public debate noong Aug. 2006 sa pagitan ng Catholic Church CFD: Mr. Wendell Talibong at Iglesia ni Cristo public debater: Ka Ramil Parba. Pinalitan lang naman nila ang isang page sa bibliya sa Confraternity bible, sakto naman na ang gamit din ni Ka Ramil Parba ay pareho ring bibliya kaya kitang kita sa video sa itaas na napahiya si Mr. Talibong, pero kahit ganoon nakakatuwa naman na TANGGAP nya ito. Ang nakakapagtaka lang ay pilit syang pinagtatanggol ng mga katoliko, yan ang sinasabi ko sa mga manananggol katoliko, basta maka DEPENSA LANG, wala naman sila sa KATOTOHANAN...

Makikita rin sa video pagkatapos nyang mapahiya ay nangatwiran syang "bastat nabasa ko sa bibliya (adulterated bible o hindi) ang pangalang One holy Catholic etc." kaya pumagitna na si Ka Jose Ventilation kasi nga naman unfair, kaya sinabi nya ito sa moderator buti na lang kamo at ang audience ay hindi mga ignorante dahil alam nila na talagang may naganap nga na pandaraya. Grabe, kakaiba talaga ang mga Catholic defender, ibat ibang taktika, puro pandaraya.

Alam nyo, kung totoong magkaiba LANG ng version ito at totoong may nakasulat ngang ganung pangalan sa bibliya, BAKIT NI HINDI MAN LANG NYA NAIPAGTANGGOL ANG SARILI NIYA? AT BAKIT HINDI ITO GINAGAMIT NG IBAT IBANG CATHOLIC DEFENDERS SA BUONG MUNDO UPANG PATUNAYAN NA ANG CATHOLIC CHURCH NILA AY NAKASULAT SA BIBLIYA?


(Note: di ko po naiintindihan ang legwahe nila, pero mabuti na lang at may halong tagalog ang dialekto nila kaya ginamit ko na lang ang common sense ko.^^)

Tawa pala ang taktika sa debate ng CFD President ng Davao City

Yan ang Part3 ng debate ng Catholic Church: CFD President ng Davao City Mr. Ryan Mejillano at Iglesia ni Cristo: Ministro ng lokal ng Mintal, Davao City Ka Julius Cutin. Edited yung buong video ng debate para PUMABOR ang mga manonood ng youtube sa kanila, ang galing diba?

Kaya inupload ko yung video kasama ang comment ko sa ginagawa nila. Kung napansin ninyo, puro TAWA ang ginawa ng walang manners na CFD, hindi lang CFD, kundi PRESIDENTE ng CFD Davao chapter, wow. hehehe

Eto ang Edited videos nila, sa nangyaring debate sa Elenita Heights, Davao City noong June 12, 2012:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3
nasa taas


Part 4

Part 5

Kayo na ang humusga. Nakita nyo ba kung gaano kadisiplinado ang mga katoliko sa likod ng humahawak ng camera? At kung ano ang dalawang nakakahiyang taktika nila sa debate? Ano nga ba?

Ang TAWA at ang "NEXT QUESTION" hehehe

Ganun pala makapagdebate ang presidente ng CFD, wow, amazing. Makikita nyo kung paano kinakaya-kaya ng CFD ang ministro ng INC, na para bang ginaganun ganun lang, pero nakita nyo kung paano sumagot ang ministro ng INC, mula sa bibliya! Yung CFD galing sa mga xerox at scratch paper yung sagot nila eh, nagpakita pa ng PASUGO kung saan may rebulto ang Ka Felix.

Dyan natin nakikita kung gaano sila KAHINA umintindi. Wala namang doktrina sa INC na bawal LAHAT ng uri at klase ng rebulto o imahen, ang bawal sa bibliya (hindi imbento ng mga ministro) eh yung imahen at rebulto na pinapasan, pinuprusisyon, dinadalanginan, inaalayan ng kandila, bulaklak at mga alay na pagkain at kung ano ano pa, nagpapakita ng pagsamba o excessive adoration at ginagawang tagapamagitan sa Dyos.

Ang rebulto ni Ka Felix ay katulad ng NORMAL at ORDINARYONG rebulto ni Rizal at iba pa, ginawa upang ALALAHANIN lamang, yun lang ang purpose ng rebulto, hindi ito ginawa upang sambahin at dasalan at ihilera sa altar kasama ang kinikilala nilang Dyos.

Pero sa kabuuan ng debate, natutuwa ako dahil etong si Mr. Ryan eh hindi katulad ng Paring si Abe na may blog na "The Splendor of the church" at si Catholicdefender2000 na ang babastos ng bunganga na parang di nakapag aral. Sport tong si Mr. Ryan kahit na ang ginawa nya sa buong debate eh tumawa ng tumawa, atlis nakikipagkamay sya at may paggalang sya sa ministro at sa Iglesia ni Cristo kahit papaano, hindi nya sinasabing Iglesia ni Manalo o kung ano pa man.

Reasons why the Executive Minister should not debate Eliseo Soriano

YOURE THE ONE TO JUDGE.

What do you think will happen if the late Bro. Erano had accepted the challenge of this kind of preacher? The above is the reason why the well respected and beloved Bro. Erano should not debate Soriano.


Another reason,

Observe the fanatic followers of Soriano, while he says weasel words, they are clapping their hands as if they should be glad about it. WOW. He is the only preacher in the whole wide world that does that. A thing that makes this preacher truly NOT-OF-GOD.

Bro. Jose Ventilation vs. Jesse Romero

(PLEASE WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO. not just the cross examination scenes or just some parts in the debate. WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO. so you may judge who the winner is.)

Last January 2012, a debate happened in Fox Theater Visalia, California between the Iglesia ni Cristo, represented by Bro. Jose Ventilation and Catholic Church, represented by Mr. Jesse Romero. It was organized by LUMEN CHRISTI, a men's bible study group in California. The topic was "Which is the True Church".

Let us watch the presentation of both parties, after watching the whole video, you judge, for you who is the real winner?



REVIEWS FROM THE CROSS-EXAMINATIONS:

First part
Bro. Ventilation asked Mr. Romero the official name of the Catholic Church, then he said that the official name was "One holy catholic apostolic roman church". Bro. Ventilation added, "Do you find that name in the bible?" Mr. Romero admitted that the official name of the Catholic Church was nowhere to be found in the Scriptures.

But a Catholic defender in the Philippines who is named "Mr. Talibong" used an adulterated bible in a debate with a minister in the church, saying on his Confraternity Bible it is said on Matt. 16:18, instead of Christ will build his church, it is said that Christ build the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church which we all now a deception, because no bible version/translation here on earth we can ever find that name in the bible! Know why?

Because:

“In 1870, at the Vatican Council, the name ‘Roman Catholic Church’ was proposed, but it was rejected. The bishops assembled unanimously decided upon this official name: ‘The Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church’” Discourses on the Apsotle’s Creed, Rev. Clement Crock, p. 191

Bro. Ventilation asked Mr. Romero if we can find the term "Catholic" in the bible, what he said is that there is the "idea" found in the Scriptures. Well, in reality we really cannot find that term in the bible because:

“’Catholic’ is the ancient name by which the Church of Christ has been known for nineteen centuries, this name was given to her not for reasons of controversy, to prove something, but because it identifies her uniquely. It was first used by St. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch in Syria, who was martyred about A.D 110. The Church founded by Christ is here, for the first time, called ‘the Catholic Church’, a name clearly to denote the Church throughout the world in union with the see or diocese of Rome. It was stress the unity of the universal Church that St. Ignatius invented the name.” Roman Catholic, Rev. Edward Taylor, p.3

It was only invented by St. Ignatius in 110 A.D. Bro. Ventilation on another topic asked Mr. Romero who presided the council if it is Peter or James, he answered James presided. He claims that James gave his opinion and not decision, while Bro. Ventilation said that James gave the decision.

On the other hand, in the cross-examination of Mr. Romero to Bro. Ventilation, he asked how can somebody be saved prior to 1914. Bro. Ventilation quoted Romans 2:12-15 that says:

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) "

It was long but the time is short so Bro. Ventilation couldnt answer the question completely as Mr. Romero interrupted him saying he didnt still answer the question. On the cross examinations, we can notice how easy to Mr. Romero interrupt Bro. Ventilation when he is answering or asking because he is a native american, who is fluent in english while Bro. Ventilation cant do that because he is not so much "fluent" in the language.



Second part
Bro. Ventilation raised the topic again about who presided the council, but then Mr. Romero changed what he was said earlier as he agreed it is James who presided, what he answered now is that ALL APOSTLES PRESIDED. Bro. Ventilation challenged him where can he find that Peter said "This is my judgment or opinion" but what Mr. Romero showed was Acts 15:7:

"And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. "

He insisted that Peter said "BY MY MOUTH" which he translates it is Peter who made the decision but Bro. Ventilation said that it is different from "judgment". Quoting Acts 15:19 but let us add 15:13 for the evidence that it is James who made the decision:

"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Brethren, hearken unto me:..." "...Wherefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them that from among the Gentiles turn to God;"

In the other hand, Mr. Romero asked Bro. Ventilation if there is a book in the New Testament the letters to the Philippines can we find it, Bro. Ventilation said that the word Philippines did not exist until 1850's, so how can that happen?

Mr. Romero asked, where can we find in the bible that Felix and his successors are given the key of Kingdom by Christ. Bro. Ventilation answered, by prophecy, he quoted a verse that says:

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19

It is prophesied that in the "far east i will bring my offspring" and "in the future there will be one flock" so in this church we have a sure word of prophecy. But Mr. Romero said "You did not answer the question", an ignorance to the answer that what was been given. He asked "Where in the bible can we found Felix and his successors? I want the names, chapters and verses i dont want to hear oh its prophecy... blah..blah.." By asking that kind of question, Bro. Ventilation called it a "silly question" as the bible was already written hundred of years ago yet he is asking for names many years after the bible was written.



Last part
Bro. Ventilation asked Mr. Romero the name of the church that was mention in Romans 16:16, if it is "churches of Christ" or "Catholic Church", he answered it was a descriptive word for the church. Bro. Ventilation further ask, If the "churches of Christ" is descriptive of the church, then the church was described as the church of Christ,right? Mr. Romero answered Yes. He added "therefore, you could not find in book of Romans the word Catholic Church is implied to the church in Rome". Bro. Ventilation asked, "How many foundation stone in the Catholic Church?" Mr. Romero gave his answer but he didnt answered the question directly as to how many.

Well, what was based on the bible is this:

"For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid." I Cor. 3:11

Catholic Church's doctrine says that Peter is the foundation of the church. If that's the case then it clearly contradicts the bible as God already placed Christ as the ONLY ONE foundation. It also means that they deny Christ as the foundation if they will acknowledge Peter as the foundation of the church! as what the bible says:

"BUT ALSO [in those days] there arose false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among yourselves, who will subtly and stealthily introduce heretical doctrines (destructive heresies), even denying and disowning the Master Who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction." II peter 2:1

In the other hand, Mr. Romero asked Bro. Ventilation this: "Did Jesus gave the key to Peter?", he answered yes, but he is not made the POPE, Christ said do not call any man your FATHER:

"And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven." Matt. 23:9

The Catholics violated this as they call their priests and popes FATHER. Mr. Romero asked Bro. Ventilation that why did abraham and others in the bible are called Father, he answered that the Fatherhood there was about the race, what Christ mentioned is about the Spiritual Father and the priests and Pope was their Spiritual Fathers.

The bible says:

"For even if you had ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, you have only one spiritual father. For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you." I Cor. 4:15

Bro. Ventilation further added the verse in Hebrews as there's no problem with that calling abraham as father and so on:

"In case of our human fathers, they punished us and we respected them. How much more then, should we submit to our Spiritual Father and live!" Hebrews 12:9

In fairness to both parties, they did well in the debate, Mr. Romero is a good sport he even gave Mr. Ventilation a standing ovation when his name is called, that is why you can see in the video that some catholics and INC members gave Mr. Romero claps as what he just did to Bro. Ventilation.

In my observation, i think Mr. Romero is better than Karl Keating, besides being good in arguments he was such a sport not like Karl Keating who even made an article about his exaggerated "experiences" in their debate with the same Bro. Ventilation.

Iglesia ni Cristo vs. Bible Baptist Church debate

Here is a classic video uploaded in youtube, the debate of Iglesia ni Cristo represented by Bro. Jose Ventilation and Bible Baptist Church represented by Mr. Salamatin held at Palawan, Philippines in Nov. 1995.

The topic were "Prove that Christ is the true God" for Mr. Salamatin and "Prove that Jesus Christ is a man and not God" for Bro. Ventilation.


See how the baptist minister wanted to "back out" on the last part of the debate...


Here is the video:

Thanks to Bro. Bonto for sharing the link!^^

Iglesia ni Cristo debate ADD

Eliseo Soriano, founder of the Members church of god international is always wanting of a debate one on one in the time of Bro. Erano Manalo, but doesnt challenge other leader of some churches!

Every member of Soriano's church always say that Iglesia ni Cristo ministers especially Bro. Erano Manalo are all coward on debating to Eliseo Soriano, is it true?

Is it also true that Bro. Erano Manalo, when he was living is afraid on debating to Eliseo Soriano?

Is it true that ministers and Bro. Manalo are hiding and dont want to debate Eliseo Soriano?

Well, the question is, who is the REAL COWARD, THAT DOESNT WANT TO DEBATE?

THE CHALLENGE AND CONDITIONS

This is a video of a minister asking Soriano what is the "Holy kiss" in Romans 16:16, poor Mr. Soriano was shocked and takes a long time to answer the minister.

Evangelical workers of ADD didnt show on the debate!
WHAT A SHAME

MR. ELISEO SORIANO: THE REAL COWARD!

I know the church of Soriano still saying and pointing out that it is the Iglesia ni Cristo ministers and especially Bro. Manalo is the cowards and doesnt want to debate Eliseo Soriano, tsk. WRONG!

It is Soriano himself is the real coward, how?

WHERE IS HE NOW! IM ASKING ALL THE MEMBERS OF ADD OF SORIANO, WHERE IS ELI SORIANO NOW?

Who the one is really hiding? Is it Bro. Manalo and ministers or Eliseo Soriano?
wait, before ending this, why is it that Bro. Manalo as executive minister do not do what Eliseo Soriano does? Like preaching on television, and so on, does that mean he is coward or hiding?


A VERY BIG NO!
The work of the executive minister is not to preach on television, not to debate to anybody. He is the 'tagapamahalang pangkalahatan', he is the administrator of the whole church, overseeing the church, and so on.

Like the president of the Philippines, his/her work is not for him to attend everyone's needs, go to every province to check each one of us... no, no, no! Instead of it, he/she assigned someone to do tasks that he/she cannot do byhis/herself! that's why we have government officials!
And in the INC, it is the same, it is not the administrator's task to preach on every locale, preach on t.v and so on. do you get my point?
It is not like Soriano, because his church is still a minority, he is the one who preach on t.v and because even he assigned members to do what he does, ofcourse they cannot do it, the question and answer task. hehe!

Members of Soriano's church recognize him as a messenger of god that's why he is the one who preaches, on the other hand, the INC recognize Bro. Felix Manalo as God's messenger in these last days, and the work of preaching is DONE by the last messenger of GOD! He is done on what Soriano still doing!
There is assigned to do public debates! I think this generation, we have Bro. Jose Ventilation and Bro. Ramil Parba. If Eliseo Soriano cannot face our ministers to a debate, how can it be to the ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CHURCH?

CONCLUSION: Eliseo Soriano is the real deceiver, coward, and looser!

Video: Holy Trinity debate in Salinas

click here for the article.


Thanks to arjay for the link

A catholic defender agreed about "Far East-Philippines" discussion

This debate is between the Catholic Church represented by a member of St.Peter's men society, Mr. Casa and Iglesia ni Cristo represented by minister Bro. Bunag in Plaza Miranda, Philippines.

See it in the video 2:00-2:15, a very "hard to accept truth" that every catholics and catholic defenders always deny by saying that the INC ministers twists and distort the truth, they even create a stories/theories of what the verse really says.

So now, in a FACE TO FACE debate, they CANNOT and NEVER deny truths, one is that the Church of Christ will reemerge in the Philippines, where it is in the "FAR EAST".

(I try to translate it in english^_^)
from 0:22-2:15

Bro. Bunag: If the "Far east" is really in the bible, are you to disagree?
Mr. Casa: No.

Bro. Bunag: If i were to read the bible that says about "ends of the earth", are you to disagree?
Mr. Casa: I also read it.

Bro. Bunag: So, are you not to disagree?
Mr. Casa: Oh yes. (blah, blah, blah) [sorry, i cant hear what he said^_^]

Bro. Bunag: That's it!, On about the "redemption on Israel", do you skip to read it or not?
Mr. Casa: I skip it to read... (blah, blah, blah)
Bro. Bunag: That's it!!

(noise from the audience)

Bro. Bunag: On about to those who walks in water and walks in fire that will not be burned, do you know who they are?
Mr. Casa: Yes, I know it.

Bro. Bunag: So, who are they?
Mr. Casa: It is the Israel nation.

Bro. Bunag: That's it!, Therefore that what's being said in 4:1-3, right?
Mr. Casa: Yes.

Bro. Bunag: In verse 4, that you read...
Mr. Casa: I haven't read it yet, because im not yet finished.

Bro. Bunag: Is it in the verse 5, there will be sons and daughters?
Mr. Casa: Yes. It is the Israelites!

Bro. Bunag: Is it the sons and daughters as written in Rome will come from the Far east?
Mr. Casa: Yes, its right. But not in the Philippines!

Bro. Bunag: Is it that "Far east" from the reference material, Philippines is in the Far East?
Mr. Casa: Yes. Philippines is in the Far east!

(noise from the audience)

Here are the videos:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8


See? I think in the history of debates between the ministers in the INC and CFD of the RCC, there are no CFD wins over the ministers of our church. This is not my opinion just to say that CFD are loosers. But you know, in the past, where there are lots of debates happened, that's one of the biggest reasons why the INC converts thousands and thousands of people. Because of these such debates where the opponents always loose in debates and then convert in the INC.


See? the 2nd comment in here?
That's what i am talking about. If that is really the explanation to that, why does CFD always loose on that topic? Why they do not say about their created explanation/theory about that "Far East-Philippines" discussion?

Or by facing the fact, that the explanation only emerge nowadays?

By the help of the joined force catholic defenders in creating such "explanation" to that verse, so that it may not look like that what the bible refers to "far east" is not the Philippines.

Holy Trinity debate in Salinas expected to draw 1,500 to Sherwood Hall

Sixteen years ago, the Rev. Chauncey Killens, then of Watsonville, called for a debate with a Salinas church on a question that's challenged the best religious scholars of the past two millennia:

"Last time, I didn't have all my reference material," Killens said Friday of the 1994 debate held at a Salinas elementary school. "I constantly bothered [the Salinas church about holding another debate], and they gave me a chance again."

Holy-Trinity-debate-in-Salinas-expected-to-draw-500-to-Sherwood-Hall" Is the God described in Judeo-Christian Scripture a single being or three in one?Saturday, the replay will happen between Killens — now with Prunedale's Soul Searching Church of God In Christ — and the Church of Christ/Iglesia Ni Cristo of Salinas.

The two groups split the costs of renting Salinas' Sherwood Hall, where they expect to fill all 1,580 seats.

Killens, better known throughout Central and Northern California for his sign-bearing campaigns against gay marriage and gang violence, will argue that the Bible supports a three-in-one deity. Even if the word "trinity" never actually appears in the text, he said, Jesus and his disciples make claims that show he was God.

Jose Ventillacion, a minister of Iglesia ni Cristo who did not take part in the original debate, will take the opposing view.

"Why is it an important question? Very simple," Iglesia's resident minister, Anthony Brandon, said. "One of the very clear things that's in the Holy Scriptures is that God says we should worship no other God except for him. Are we really worshiping the correct God? Because if not, then our very salvation could be at stake."

Brandon said Ventillacion will rely on both biblical text and other references to show the lack of scriptural support for the idea of a Holy Trinity.

Not about arguing

Still, both Killens and Brandon say the debate is not about arguing. They said they instead see it as an opportunity to share faith and beliefs and allow people to come to their own conclusions.

And for Killens, knowing the true nature of God is not necessarily a matter of life and death, eternal or otherwise.

"The more we understand the Bible clearly," he said, "it'll prevent us from doing stupid things. I don't think God necessarily requires that you need to know all the doctrine. [Jesus] was born to a virgin, he did a ministry, he rose from the dead, he's coming back again. If you believe those things and walk it, too, then you're a Christian."

Source: thecalifornian.com

The EVENT

”Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live…” I Cor. 8:6. Apostle Paul taught this with full confidence for this is the truth taught by Christ himself (John 17:3, 1). And this truth, that there is only one true God, is what the Church of Christ today firmly upholds and has asserted once again in a debate held at the Sherwood hall in Salinas California on February 27, 2010.

Soul searching Church of God in Christ, a Protestant group in Prundale, California, calle for a debate with the Church of Christ in the local congregation of Salinas, California, putting on the line the Trinitarian belief they espouse. Mr. Chauncey Killens, pastor of the aforementioned group, together with two associates, represented their church. Bro. Jose Ventilation, together with Brothers Robert Pellien and Edward Maranan, represented the Church of Christ. Monterey Country supervisor Simon Salinas acted as the moderator. The event was well attended with the audience numbering around 1,500.

Mr. Killens, in his stand, cited verses that supposedly allude to Christ’s pre existence in order to support his claim that there are three persons in one God, although the same time openly admitting that the doctrine Trinity is nowhere to be found in the Holy Sriptures.

Bro. Ventilation, for his part, emphasized the oneness of God by presenting verses that expressly state this doctrine upheld by the Church. Citing biblical verses, such as the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ himself (John 17:3,1) he emphasized that knowing the Father as the only one true God—not one of the three persons in one God—will lead to eternal life. He ended his speech by inviting Killens and his followers to join instead the true Church of Christ which upholds this truth and be among those and be among those who will receive God’s grace of salvation and eternal life. -->

Source: Pasugo:God's Message May 2010
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Chauncey Killens debated years ago with the Church of Christ but lost. And then he called abother debate to challenge again the Church of Christ regarding the central belief of most christian religions, the Trinity.
But AGAIN LOST IN THE DEBATE! No one can stand especially defending false doctrines! See how God guide Bro. Ventilation on every debate he attended.

Menorrah

Member

Join Date: Jun 2010

Napanood ko ang debate sa Salinas, California about Trinity. It's between Bro. Joe Ventilacion and Pastor Killens.

All I can say, the Trinity falls again....

Menorrah

Member

Join Date: Jun 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by wing_commander Wanna try Dr. James White?

Ask him to send a letter of proposition to the Iglesia ni Cristo Central Administration.

Pastor Killens was very happy to get a second chance. He admitted he lose in the first round. And waited for 17 years trying to get even. He lose twice instead.

From: pinoyexchange.com

Want the video for the debate? click here.

Catholic Defenders: Cheaters?

The debate was held on August 5, 2006. The Iglesia ni Cristo was represented by Brother Ramil Parba while the Roman Catholic Church was represented by Mr. Talibong. Usually, in formal debates the Roman Catholic Church in the Philippines is represented by one of the members of the Catholic Defender.

What happened is that during the show down, Mr. Talibong argued that he can read a verse that clearly said that Christ build the Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church. The verse is Matthew 16:18 in the Confraternity Bible. The only problem is that the Catholic Defenders changed the page where the Matt. 16:18 was printed with the page they wrote by themselves.

The original text of the Matt 16:18 of the Confraternity Version goes:

“…. I will build my church…”

What the Catholic Defenders did was changed that part to: “… I will build my Holy Apostolic Catholic Roman Church…”

And just like what Brother Parba cried, it’s really a deception!

From: millionairescamp.blogspot.com

This is a debate between an INC minister and a Catholic Defender. See who's cheated, very ashaming to the church. We know that there is no phrase in the bible that states about "Holy Apostolic Catholic Roman Church" or even just "Catholic Church" in any kind of bible translation. See how they go on a formal debate, they are loosers! Poor...

Im not surprised, because even the Catholic Defenders here in the internet cannot answers directly from the bible. I have challenged at least two popular catholic bloggers here, Fr. Abe and Sir Cenon Bibe jr. They cannot answer my simple question, and its only turning to non sense throwing of accusations...


See here.
Tumbukin Natin
The Splendor of the Church

I hope they change their dirty tactics,

here in the internet and even in formal debates!

Calling all Catholic Defenders out there!

INC debate SDA

This was the video of the debate between the Iglesia Ni Cristo and the Seventh day Adventist. Bro. Jose Ventilation represents the INC and Mr. Richard to the SDA.

When i watched the debate, i can say that it was so good and Mr. Richard is funny here how he answer questions coming from Bro. Ventilation. What his tactic is to answer and ask question in a "pilosopo" way. He will say "oh, its not our doctrine, you should ask if it is our doctrine!" to avoid to answer Bro. Ventilation's questions. See it for yourselves:

The debate is done peacefully and both can be called a great "sport!"...

For you, Who is the winner?

Bro. Jose ventilation Vs. Karl Keating

Here are the videos of the debate between the 2 sides, the INC represented by a minister Bro. Jose Ventilation and the Catholic Church represented by a Catholic defender Karl Keating in San Jose, California USA with guests who are catholics, INC members and other faiths.

The topic were: "Resolve that the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church is the only true church according to the bible" and "Resolve that the Church of Christ which appeared in the Philippines in 1914 is the only true church according to the bible."

Unfortunately, the time is so short for them to explain their sides better, that's the real big problem. Because as i read Pasugo Magazines, debates in the past happened like 2-4 days not just in 1 day so that every topic will be resolved. The debate lasts only in 3-4 hours.

As the summary, the topic goes on to subjects: trinity, true god, Bro. Felix Manalo as God's messenger, Far East-Philippines, Pasugo, Apostle Peter as a foundation stone, name of the church, and Thomas' "my lord and my God".

Mr. Karl Keating's follow up story article that is being exaggerated, more on opinion and accusation, bias, and some are just a myths about INC with his experiences that entitled Into the maw of the cult.

To show that he was not lose in the debate, he quickly wrote up an article and he write his exaggerated ideas and "experiences" in the said debate. If you just read that article, it was so bias and his intention was showed of, to debunk the INC!

To be honest Mr. Karl Keating is good, even though he had no companions in the debate. The debate was done peacefully but i think it ended the two sides not a good mood.

For you, who is the winner, Bro. Ventilation or Karl Keating?