"Ipaglaban mo nang puspusan ang pananampalataya. Panghawakan mong mabuti ang buhay na walang hanggan, dahil diyan ka tinawag ng Diyos nang ipahayag mo sa harap ng maraming saksi ang iyong pananalig kay Cristo." I Tim. 6:12

May 6, 2013

Is Christ the "God" who is overall in Romans 9:5?

Christ is God believers believes that Romans 9:5 is a proof that he is indeed God.

This is what different bible translations says:


New International Version (©2011)
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
English Standard Version (©2001)
To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
International Standard Version (©2012)
To the Israelis belong the patriarchs, and from them, the Messiah descended, who is God over all, the one who is forever blessed. Amen.
NET Bible (©2006)
To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
American King James Version
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
American Standard Version
whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Darby Bible Translation
whose are the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, is the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
English Revised Version
whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Webster's Bible Translation
Whose are the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Weymouth New Testament
To them the Patriarchs belong, and from them in respect of His human lineage came the Christ, who is exalted above all, God blessed throughout the Ages. Amen.
World English Bible
of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.
Young's Literal Translation
whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.


source: bible.cc

The question is, are those bible translations that refer to Christ as the "GOD" who is over all that should be blessed forever, CORRECT?

If we will accept the understanding that it is Christ who is the "GOD" based on this verse, doesnt it CONTRADICT other verses?

Does Apostle Paul really recognize Christ as GOD? 



The GOD of Apostle Paul

He said:


"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." I Cor. 8:6

Apostle Paul BELIEVE that the ONE GOD of his and us is but the FATHER.

He BELIEVE that there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR of God and men who is Jesus Christ, A HUMAN:

"There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings—a human, the Messiah Jesus." I Tim. 2:5

If the FATHER is our ONE GOD, and Christ, as what Apostle Paul said is a human, COULD HE BE A GOD ALSO? If that will be the case, then did Apostle Paul lie because he said that FOR US there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER? How can be a "GOD" be a mediator between his self and human beings?

There are more verses in the bible that shows that Apostle Paul recognize ONE GOD, and that is the FATHER.


Is Christ the "GOD" who is OVERALL that should be BLESSED?

Let us ask Apostle Paul, Good day Apostle Paul, i will just ask you something, do you really BELIEVE that it is Jesus Christ, the son of God, is the GOD who is OVER ALL?

This is what Apostle Paul answered:

 "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Eph. 4:6

Apostle Paul said again that there is ONE GOD and Father of all, This "Father" is the "ONE GOD" WHO IS OVER ALL. 

He also said that Christ (a human, based on Apostle Paul) will be subjected to God so that GOD MAYBE ALL IN ALL:


"For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." I Cor. 15:27-28

If it is now CLEAR to us that it is GOD, THE FATHER who is OVER ALL and not Christ, who is the GOD that should be BLESSED?

Let us ask again Apostle Paul, and this is his answer:


"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort," II Cor. 1:3

Apostle Paul said that it is the GOD AND FATHER of our Lord Jesus, the "GOD" who is OVERALL that should be BLESSED.



Is Christ the "GOD" in Romans 9:5?

While maybe most bible translations refer Christ as the "GOD" who is over all, there are still some bible translations and versions that does not refer Christ as the "GOD" in the said verse. 

Revised Standard Version: 

"To them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God is over all be blessed forever. Amen."

Today's English Version:

"They are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors, and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen."

Moffatt Translation:

“the patriarchs are theirs, and theirs too (so far as natural descent goes) is the Christ. (Blessed for evermore be the God who is over all! Amen.)”

New English Bible:

"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them, in natural descent, sprang the Messiah. May God, supreme above all, be blessed for ever! Amen."


What they say about translations that Christ is referred as God in Romans 9:5...

"This half verse has been the center of interminable controversy. The issue appears from a comparison of our two English texts. Is God over all, be blessed forever (or the one who is over all, God blessed forever) a phrase in apposition with "Christ" and belonging in the same sentence as the rest of vs.5 (so the KJV and the RSV mg.), or is this phrase grammatically separate, a doxology to God at the end of the recital of the privileges of Israel (so the RSV and most modern translators?) The question cannot be answered on the basis of Greek since it is a matter almost entirely punctuation and Greek MSS in the early period were not punctuated." "...but the choice is probably to be made between the KJV and the RSV translations. The majority of modern commentators favor the latter because of the unlikehood of Paul's having here referred to Christ as 'God'." (The Interpreter's bible, vol. 9 p.540)


"Although there are strong grammatical arguments to the contrary, the UBS textual committee prefers the reading represented in the TEV, principally on the basis that Paul elsewhere never calls Christ God. Mos modern English translations prefer the rendering represented in the TEV (so RSV, NEB, NAB, Goodspeed, Moffatt)." (A Translator's Handbook on Paul's letter to the Romans, p. 180)


"It should be added that Rom. 9:5 cannot be adduced to prove that Paul ever thought of Christ as God. The state of the case is found in the R.V. margin…He [Paul] never leaves the ground of Jewish monotheism. It has been pointed out that Rom. 9:5 cannot be brought in to question this statement. On the contrary, God is spoken of by the Apostle as not only the Father, but also the God of our Lord Jesus Christ” (The Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 34-36.)



Meaning, Romans 9:5 cannot be a proof that Christ is the "GOD" WHO IS OVER ALL because it is Christ himself that says that the ONLY and TRUE GOD that WE SHOULD KNOW is the FATHER:

"Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you; even as you gave him authority over all flesh, he will give eternal life to all whom you have given him. This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ." John 17:1-3




Reference:
Pasugo July 2001 Issue

6 comments:

  1. New International Version (©2011)
    Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
    English Standard Version (©2001)
    To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
    The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
    International Standard Version (©2012)
    To the Israelis belong the patriarchs, and from them, the Messiah descended, who is God over all, the one who is forever blessed. Amen.
    NET Bible (©2006)
    To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.
    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
    American King James Version
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    American Standard Version
    whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Darby Bible Translation
    whose are the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, is the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    English Revised Version
    whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    Whose are the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Weymouth New Testament
    To them the Patriarchs belong, and from them in respect of His human lineage came the Christ, who is exalted above all, God blessed throughout the Ages. Amen.
    World English Bible
    of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.
    Young's Literal Translation
    whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.

    The question is, are those bible translations that refer to Christ as the "GOD" who is over all that should be blessed forever, CORRECT?

    WELL, THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YES.
    ROMANS 9:5 IS A PROOF OF DUAL NATURE OF CHRIST. HE IS 100% GOD AND 100% MAN.

    IN JESUS CHRIST'S HUMAN NATURE; HE CAME FROM JEWISH ANCESTRY, AN ISRAELITE.
    BUT
    IN JESUS CHRIST'S DIVINE NATURE; HE IS GOD OVER ALL.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The "God who is overall" in Romans 9:5 does not refer to Christ but to his GOD, the ONLY TRUE GOD-THE FATHER. Christ cannot be GOD because he is a MAN. The bible proves us that he is a man, therefore not God. We only have one true God, this God is "ONLY ONE" and not just "ONE".

      Your explanation about the verse violates what was written in the bible.

      Delete
  2. God declare in Hosea 11 verse 9 he is god not human.. God does not contradict him self. It's clear that no dual form hehehe:)
    Lord Jesus declare he is talking to Jews in John 8 verse 40 new King James Version
    I'm a man which is telling you the truth that I heard from god.
    This is very clear don't make lord Jesus a lair. Because he said he's a man and telling the truth also he said that he heard from god. And there 's a lot more proof. In the bible. If we accept Jesus is god 100% and human% 100 that's not biblical .. God may help you :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And also concerning 1 Corinthian 8:6 No, it doesn't mean what you think it means or believes. If Paul, "Hey, we have a God here (the Father) and a Lord over there (Jesus)", then God would not be our Lord (weird much?). Paul is saying God = Lord, so Father and Son are God

      Remember, Paul was a 1st century Jew highly versed in the Old Testament. One form of Jewish writing in the OT is parallelism, repeating the same thought with slightly modified words. For example:

      "This computer is the fastest one I have
      This Mac laptop is the swiftest that I own"

      Delete
  3. REQUEST naman po. Pwede po ba gumawa po kayo ng BLOG about sa Melchizedek (Heb. 71:3). Thanks in advance

    ReplyDelete


  4. CHRIST’S DIVINITY IN ROMANS 9:5 by Bro. Duane

    K Aland and K Junack of the Munster Institute for New Testament Textual Research report that there is no punctuation mark in this verse in p46 (ca. 200) and א (fourth century).

    A mid-point colon after σάρκα is found in A (fifth century), B (in the second hand), FP (ninth century), GP (ninth century) , Ψ (eight or ninth century) , 049 (ninth century), and 056 (tenth century).

    Does Jose Ventilacion know this? Were you honest to your listeners? Or, why are you not aware of this and you simply pretend to know everything when it comes to biblical languages?

    I just want to quote the letter of a New Testament Scholar, Murray. J Harris.

    “It is incontestable that in the early centuries the scribes responsible for the transmission of the NT used marks of punctuation in an inconsistent and erratic fashion. For instance, according
    to C. Lattey (“Codex Vaticanus”), in Romans 9 Codex Vaticanus (B) has a colon after cr<ip min verse 3,”

    ReplyDelete

RULES ARE STRICTLY BEING IMPLEMENTED.
COMMENTS THAT VIOLATE RULES ARE DELETED.

1. Comments should be related to the topic posted
2. No flooding
3. No cursing and name calling (kultoliko, ADDict, Iglesia ni Manalo, etc)
4. No posting of any kind of advertisement/promotion
5. No debates/arguments

You can ask, suggest, answer or react to an article. Discussion or sharing of knowledge is appreciated, not to be confused with debates/arguments.