Purgatory?

What does the Catholic Church teaches after a person dies?

"According to Catholic belief, immediately after death, a person undergoes judgment in which the soul's eternal destiny is specified. Some are eternally united with God in Heaven, often envisioned as a paradise of eternal joy, where Theosis is completed and one experiences the beatific vision of God. Conversely, others reach a state called Hell, that is eternal separation from God often envisioned as a fiery place of punishment,"

"According to Catholic doctrine, some souls are not sufficiently free from the temporal effects of sin and its consequences to enter the state of heaven immediately, nor are they so sinful as to be destined for hell either. Such souls, ultimately destined to be united with God in heaven, must first endure purgatory— a state of purification." source: wikipedia

The only question with this doctrine of the Catholic Church is that, is this BIBLICAL?

Nov.1 is coming again, in the Philippines:

"this day, called "Undas", "Todos los Santos" (literally "All Saints"), and sometimes "Araw ng mga Patay" (approximately "Day of the dead") is observed as All Souls' Day. This day and the one before and one after it is spent visiting the graves of deceased relatives, where prayers and flowers are offered, candles are lit and the graves themselves are cleaned, repaired and repainted. Living relatives of the dead spend the day & evening at the grave site where food and drinks are served like a picnic." source: wikipedia

In the Philippines, it should not be called "Araw ng mga Patay (Day of the Dead)" but to "Feast for the dead". Its very obvious, they go to the cemetery not only because of the reason of visiting the deceased relative but also to make fun (party-party!^^) like having a picnic, reunion, gambling and even drinking liquors and so on. (But now it is not allowed in the cemetery, while still some does it secretly)

As what ive read in a discussion:

Roland Nagtalon wrote:

Chuck, Chibog na lang ang uso ngayon sa sementeryo. bawal na alak at sugal.
believeme man, you will be apprehended. times have changed....for the better.:)


Reutcek Basilio wrote:

Walang "undas" dito pare, unbills" (bayarin) madalas hehe. Kamusta ka na? Crowded parin ba sa mga simenteryo? Ang sarap noon I remember pumupunta ako sa sementeryo para makipag reunion sa mga pinsan ko, uminom, magsugal at tumingin ng mga cuties haha pero siempre pagkatapos magdasal. Ingat ka lang pare, nice to hear from you again. source: yahoo groups

History

"Theologians and other Christians then developed the doctrine regarding purgatory over the centuries, leading to the definition of the formal doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church on the matter (as distinct from the legendary descriptions) at the Second Council of Lyon (1274), the Council of Florence (1438–1445), and the Council of Trent (1545–63)." source: wikipedia

History according to some books

"Purgatory had been invented by Rome in A.D 593 but it remained a very unpopular doctrine for many centuries. When Mass came into being however, these two innovations of the Roman Church became inseparably connected with each other. The question came up in Roman circles: 'Can Mass of an alleged infinite spiritual value, deliver the souls in Purgatory?' The Pope soon accepted this new idea and the Mass in connection with Purgatory was born. Today our readers know what a financial success the marriage of Mass and Purgatory has been. There is not a single product in the world toady that has been more successful financially than these two religious doctrines, mass and Purgatory" Lucien Vinet, I was a Priest, pp. 43-44


"The Idea of Purgatory finds its roots in Buddhism and other ancient religious systems, long before the existence of the Roman Catholic Church. Evidences of its introduction into Christian thought are found in some of the writings of the early Church Fathers, as far back as the third and fourth centuries of the Christian Era, but it had no officially recognized place until the time of Gregory I..." Dreyer and Weller p. 107


"... from the time of Augustine onwards in the West the element of purgatorial discipline becomes much more obtrusive. Augustine himself is by no means dogmatic on the subject of purgatory. In The City of God, he mentions the theory that the spirits of the dead will be purified by fire between death and last judgment, and he comments: "I do not reject this theory, for it may be true'..." A Dictionary of Christian Theology p.160


"...Tertullian, in the second century, writes: 'We make obligations for the dead on their anniversary' (that is, we offer up the Holy sacrifice of the Mass). 'If you seek from the Scriptures the precept for this, and other practices, you will not find; tradition is the author of it, custom confirms it and faith observes it'..." Reverend Clement H. Crock p. 271


"The Catholic Church has defined the existence of Purgatory in the Decree of union drawn up at the Council of Florence in 1439, and again at the Council of trent..." Reverend Bertrand Conway p. 393



Biblical Teachings

What does the holy Scripture say about the dead? What happens to the soul when a man dies? Can the dead profit from anything that the living do for them(prayers, offer foods and so on)?

“The living know they will die, but the dead know nothing. Dead people have no more reward, and people forget them. After people are dead, they can no longer love or hate or envy. They will never again share in what happens here on earth.” Eccl. 9:5-6

The dead knows NOTHING. Meaning, even if you offer a millions of prayers, candles, flowers, and so on, it will never profit or share whatever happens here on earth.

What really happens when a man dies?

“His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” Psalms 146:6

Upon cessation of breath, the thoughts of a dying man perish; he returns to his earth, a fulfillment of what God had decreed;

“…Later you will return to the ground, because you were taken from it.
You are dust, and when you die, you will return to the dust." Gen. 3:19

What happens to the spirit of a man upon cessation of breath?

“You will turn back into the dust of the earth again, but your spirit will return to God who gave it.” Eccl. 12:7

What is the proof of the scripture that does not teach the immortality of the soul?

“For our soul is bowed down to the dust; Our body clings to the ground.”
Psalms 44:25

We can see that when a person died, he then knows nothing and cant do anything because he is already dead. His body is already in the grave, so his thoughts also perish as what happened to him. We should remember that a person is consist of: body, soul and spirit. Both soul and body cleave to the ground while the spirit returns to God.

Meaning to say, the belief that after a person died, he will immediately be in heaven, hell or purgatory is WRONG. It is indeed unbiblical!

And most importantly, the souls are not with us here on earth as many alleged, they called it "Ghosts" as they are still in the purgatory. Ghosts are product of our imagination, and ghost related experiences have scientific explanations and even though some events still cant answered by science, it doesnt mean that it is already true.

Why? Different species, organisms and so on are discovered as time goes by, meaning to say, there are still living things that are not yet discovered, but it doesnt mean that THEY DONT EXIST.

INC doesnt believe ghosts, but "evil spirits", i think yes, because even in the bible we can see that there are people possessed by the demons.

By the way, it is also a self explanatory, that if its true that when a person dies, he will immediately go to hell or heaven, then what is the so called JUDGMENT DAY in the bible?

Another thing, if dead people really needs our prayers for them to go to heaven, as they have sinned, what will happen if all "purgatory believers" died? Who then will PRAY FOR THEIR SOULS EVERY YEAR? Does that mean that they are all destined to hell?^^

All saints day or All souls day?

November 2 for Catholic Church is a day of “services and prayers for the souls in purgatory” 

“All saints day” for some, if not most, offer their prayers for alleviating the sufferings of the “poor souls in purgatory”.

They allegedly say that November 2 is the day for remembering the dead and on this date Catholic priests will be offering “prayers for the dead”, yet in actual practice in most places is on November 1.


Lets take a closer look on how it all began.



All Saints Day

In the east

"The feast of All Saints achieved great prominence in the ninth century, in the reign of the Byzantine Emperor, Leo VI "the Wise" (886–911). His wife, Empress Theophano—commemorated on December 16—lived a devout life. After her death, her husband built a church, intending to dedicate it to her.

When he was forbidden to do so, he decided to dedicate it to "All Saints," so that if his wife were in fact one of the righteous, she would also be honored whenever the feast was celebrated. According to tradition, it was Leo who expanded the feast from a commemoration of All Martyrs to a general commemoration of All Saints, whether martyrs or not."

In the west

“The origin of the festival of All Saints as celebrated in the West dates to May 13, 609 or 610, when Pope Boniface IV consecrated the Pantheon at Rome to the Blessed Virgin and all the martyrs; the feast of the dedicatio Sanctae Mariae ad Martyres has been celebrated at Rome ever since.

The chosen day, May 13, was a pagan observation of great antiquity, the culmination of three days of the Feast of the Lemures, in which the malevolent and restless spirits of the dead were propitiated. Liturgiologists of the Middle Ages based the idea that this Lemuria festival was the origin of that of All Saints on their identical dates and on the similar theme of "all the dead".?

“The feast of All Saints, on its current date, is traced to the foundation by Pope Gregory III (731–741) of an oratory in St. Peter's for the relics "of the holy apostles and of all saints, martyrs and confessors, of all the just made perfect who are at rest throughout the world", with the day moved to November 1.

A November festival of all the saints was already widely celebrated on November 1 in the days of Charlemagne. It was made a day of obligation throughout the Frankish empire in 835, by a decree of Louis the Pious, issued "at the instance of Pope Gregory IV and with the assent of all the bishops", which confirmed its celebration on November 1. The octave was added by Pope Sixtus IV (1471—1484).” source: wikipedia

All Souls Day

The custom of setting apart a special day for intercession for certain of the faithful on November 2 was first established by St. Odilo of Cluny (d. 1048) at his abbey of Cluny in 998. From Cluny the custom spread to the other houses of the Cluniac order, which became the largest and most extensive network of monasteries in Europe. The celebration was soon adopted in several dioceses in France, and spread throughout the Western Church. It was accepted in Rome only in the fourteenth century.

The origins of All Souls' Day in European folklore and folk belief are related to customs of ancestor veneration practised worldwide, through events such as the Chinese Ghost Festival, the Japanese Bon Festival, or the Mexican Day of the Dead. The Roman custom was that of the Lemuria.

In Tirol, cakes are left for them on the table and the room kept warm for their comfort.

In Brittany, people flock to the cemeteries at nightfall to kneel, bareheaded, at the graves of their loved ones, and to anoint the hollow of the tombstone with holy water or to pour libations of milk on it. At bedtime, the supper is left on the table for the souls.

In Bolivia, many people believe that the dead eat the food that is left out for them. In Brazil people attend a mass or visit the cemetery taking flowers to decorate their relatives' grave, but no food is involved. source: wikipedia

Now lets examine just a piece of it…

“The origin of the festival of All Saints as celebrated in the West dates to May 13, 609 or 610, when Pope Boniface IV consecrated the Pantheon at Rome to the Blessed Virgin and all the martyrs; the feast of the dedicatio Sanctae Mariae ad Martyres has been celebrated at Rome ever since. The chosen day, May 13, was a pagan observation of great antiquity,..”

I will not give my opinion here, youre the one to judge!

Its history that says, not just someone. 

But do we really need to do these things for our dead?
Lets read Eccl. 9:5-6 that says,

“The living know they will die, but the dead know nothing. Dead people have no more reward, and people forget them. After people are dead, they can no longer love or hate or envy. They will never again share in what happens here on earth.”

The dead will make no profit anymore or will share in all such activities done by the living because dead knows nothing. Why would you choose to make such efforts while the dead you are been given by that knows nothing…Let not your faith and actions be based on man-made doctrines!

What really happens when a man dies?

“His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” Psalms 146:6

Upon cessation of breath, the thoughts of a dying man perish; he returns to his earth, a fulfillment of what God had decreed;

“…Later you will return to the ground, because you were taken from it.
You are dust, and when you die, you will return to the dust." Gen. 3:19

What happens to the spirit of a man upon cessation of breath?

“You will turn back into the dust of the earth again, but your spirit will return to God who gave it.” Eccl. 12:7

What is the proof of the scripture that does not teach the immortality of the soul?

“For our soul is bowed down to the dust; Our body clings to the ground.”
Psalms 44:25

The soul and the body of a dead person cleave to the ground. The soul is nowhere in “purgatory” undergoing purgation!

What happens to the spirit, soul and body?

“God's word is alive and working and is sharper than a double-edged sword. It cuts all the way into us, where the soul and the spirit are joined, to the center of our joints and bones. And it judges the thoughts and feelings in our hearts.” Heb. 4:12

The spirit, soul and body are separated upon the advent of death. The spirit returns to God who gave it (Eccl. 12:7); the soul and body cleave to the ground.